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Rank: Administration
Joined: 2/17/2008
Posts: 97
Location: Washington, OK
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Someone sent me the following in an email. I think it has a lot of points that are worthy of discussion. I'm going to post my comments about it as other people discuss it, but I will start by saying that: - there are parts of it I think are very valid - parts of it that I think are legalistic - parts of it that I think are based in tradition but presented more as doctrine - parts of it that are a question of liberty I hope you'll take time to read and discuss it. There is MUCH in it that exposes both problems, needs and truths in modern Christianity. Here is it (author unknown): Quote:Wanted: An Old-fashioned Church
To Whom it May Concern: I’m looking for a good Christian church. I don’t want to sing songs off a wall, the same five notes, over and over and over and over again while I am lightheaded from standing so long. There’s a record of the hymns of God’s people that spans 2000 years. Why are we so arrogant as to think we don’t need those wonderful songs any longer? Have we gone through more suffering, more affliction, more pain for Jesus than those who wrote these enduring hymns? Does a semi-secular song writer in Nashville with a multimillion dollar music contract have more to say to us about God and the Christian life than the 17th-century hymn writer who lost four children and his wife during the 30 years
War?
I don’t want to have my eardrums bashed in by the three kids in the “worship band” who can’t be bothered to bathe, shave, dress or comb their hair on Sunday morning. If it’s really all about the God that Scripture describes as ineffably holy, shouldn’t that be reflected in attitude and dress for those who serve in church music? I don’t want a vampy “praise and worship” leader who is flaunting her wares at every male within view as she does her worship moves on “stage.” If we are to worship God in spirit and in truth, as Scripture tells us, than what’s all the flesh about? Can we no longer discern the difference? I don’t want to see people in beach attire with their backsides peeping out of their shorts because they think that God isn’t worth their best efforts at dressing. “God doesn’t care about clothes, only man,” they say. But the real reason is that it’s just plain easier to cruise into church in jeans or whatever is still lying on the floor from the night before. Dressing up for worship of the Lord would cost them something, however little, and they don’t want to pay it. I also don’t want to see all the variations on lovers’ back rubs where Chuck and Sue take turns massaging each other’s neck and shoulders during the sermon so everyone behind them is completely distracted. Behavior affects other people.
Are Christians so self-absorbed that they never think about the people behind them trying to hear the message? I don’t want to hear announcements during “worship” about the youth group pizza blast and laser tag event next Tuesday night, the need for grills for the upcoming church fun fest or jokes about how Bill burned the wieners last summer at the church picnic. Why can this not be put at the end after our “worship” is completed? I don’t want Christian karaoke for “special music.” Screeching females trying to imitate their favorite pop stars belong at the local bar, not a house of prayer.
Let me tell you what I am looking for in corporate worship of believers. I’m looking for a spirit of reverence among God’s people, a sense that we have come to join in with the company of angels, archangels, and the church triumphant who gather before God’s throne in that never ending heavenly worship. I’m looking for a service that is founded upon and completely focused on God and His Word. I want to begin the worship with an entrance Psalm, to be reminded that in worship we enter heaven’s gates with thanksgiving and His courts with praise. I want to hear the name of God invoked at the beginning, opening the worship in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, without which Spirit, we worship in vain.
I need to confess my sins, receive the comforting assurance that God has forgiven me, and I want to corporately confess my faith with my fellow believers. I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our LORD…I need to sing of God’s holiness, His attributes and His greatness through the hymns of the faith that have been handed down through the ages from the pens and the lips of those who have gone before us.
Why? Because God is truly “Immortal, Invisible, God only Wise, in light inaccessible, hid from our eyes.” Because God is “Holy, Holy Holy,” our Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come. Because it is right and fitting that our souls should praise the King of Heaven. He is worthy of all our praise because He is “Lord, Enthroned in Heavenly Splendor.” To discard this canon of music of Christ’s church down through time is to turn our backs on our family in the faith. In 21st Century America, we truly do not know better than they.
I need to hear the Scriptures read out—as much of it as possible. Three Scripture lessons are hardly enough. How often has a passage of Scripture read out spoken to my heart about something? Why is Scripture so often limited to the text of a message, if it’s there at all now? The Old Testament Lesson. The New Testament Lesson. The Gospel Lesson. I need all the lessons that God’s holy Word can provide. I need to hear the Scriptures preached from a man of God, who is a man of prayer and personal holiness and who takes seriously his office of under-shepherd. Why do I want preaching? Because faith comes by hearing, the Bible says, and hearing by God’s Word.
I need conviction of the Holy Spirit in my own heart and life. I want to be reminded who God is and my duty before Him. I don’t want a pastor who spews vulgarities and crude talk to show how “real” he is, or who feeds on Hollywood so that the only thing that comes out of his mouth is foolishness in his pathetic attempts at cultural relevance. God’s Word is eternally relevant. I can tell where the pastor gets his life food from. It always, always shows. Any pastor who is not a man of the Word and of prayer is no pastor at all. I want a pastor who prays for his sheep, who understands that we are in a spiritual battle, and that Satan hates us and will do anything he can to try to take our faith from us. I want elders who lead by example with their families.
No family is ever perfect. That’s why we need the forgiveness of our Savior daily. But elders should be leading lives that are Christ-honoring in their marriages and in their leadership and training of their children. When the children of an elder are worldly and carnal and disrespectful, it is plain that they are not keeping their homes in order. This kind of leadership no church needs because how will the members learn how to run their own homes and families if no godly example is in view? We are sheep. We need leaders. I want a time of serious prayer in church, seeking God for His help and wisdom in these dark times, for the needs of the congregation and for the witness of the fellowship in the community.
As we kneel, we’re reminded of our utter helplessness without the Lord. I want a benediction at the end of the worship, where the pastor tells us to go in peace, because we have been washed in the blood of the Lamb, have been forgiven for our sins, and have the joyful assurance that God is with us and will take care of us. This kind of old-fashioned church might meet in a rented room, a home, a gymnasium, a new, modern building, a vine-covered, old brick traditional church, a little white frame building or anywhere else. It is not the location that matters, it is the content and focus of the worship, and the heart of the leaders of the church. Outside of the corporate worship, I want a church that believes in evangelism and outreach.
Doctrinal clubs that sit smugly complacent are actually mausoleums. Who wants to worship in a tomb? There is a world out there that needs the message of the Gospel. It is our responsibility to take it to them, and churches should facilitate and train members for this critical mission. Truly saved believers have a burning heart to share it with others. I want to be part of a church that has this burning heart. I want to be part of a church where the young people are not just going on mission trips because they get to have fun in cool places, but because they get to share with those who have never heard the truth that Jesus saves. Social work is fine, but the Gospel message of Jesus must be heard loud and clear in the midst of it.
If you know of such a church in my area, would you please contact me at the earliest convenience. I would be grateful.
Sincerely, A Christian
Brent Riggs - Author, teacher, mentor, online business expert riggsreport.com | brentriggsBLOG.com | brentriggs.com | seriousfaith.com | brentriggsPHOTO.com | brentriggsSTUFF.com
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Rank: New Member
Joined: 2/20/2008
Posts: 2
Location: Mississippi
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The person who wrote this letter is longing for the same thing I, and a lot of other Christians are hungry for. It seems some people these days don't know anything but "modern" and that is great, as long as modern has the basic foundation of God. I agree with most everything written and find myself "wishing" it could be closer to that way, but at the same time, want to be able to recruit, attract new believers. How do you attract someone to come to your church with old fashion ways and traditional teaching, when the church next door is reaching out to the "modern ways, feel good, come back again" folks. We all need conviction, confession, repentence. We all need to be reminded, by fire & brimstone teaching if necessary, of the reasons to repent.
I remember when I was little, about 10 years old, and my Sunday School teacher taught a lesson about sin. The scripture read "The wages of sin is death." I remember thinking if I broke a commandment, I was going to die. Of course that's not what happened, because I also learned that God forgives if we confess our sins. I learned there are consequences to everything. I learned that hell is real and I did not want to be a part of it. I wanted to learn how NOT to be a part it. The devil is everywhere and we need to know who we're dealing with and what he's capable of and how God is our only defense against him. Back to basics is the best beginning.
In prayer,
Marla Barr
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Rank: New Member
Joined: 4/1/2008
Posts: 1
Location: North Carolina
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Marla, I agree with you, completely. I would love to go to a church like that again. I know things have changed, but God's word hasn't. It's hard for a church like that to attract people now. Other, more wordly churches, are offering so many social programs for old and young alike <which is good if they truly glorify God.> However, a lot of them are just for self-gratification, I'm afraid. My own personal opinion is that they are more interested in numbers, not souls. For everyone's sake, I hope I am wrong.
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Rank: New Member
Joined: 2/21/2008
Posts: 1
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At one time the "methods" of having church were "new" to the people following Jesus. In fact following Jesus was "new" to everyone is Jesus' day. The same is true with the church. I'm not against hymns in fact the church that I am currently youth pastoring at sings mostly hymns. But those hymns were once the "modern" worship. Music has always changed with times, but that doesn't mean that the "message" that the worship song is about has to change. Our focus should be that of Christ and everything we do, and say should reflect that.
Now when it comes to people who are in leadership within the church, I agree that their life should, again, be like Jesus in all mannerisms and conduct. But as I recall those who "started" the church, THE 12 disciples, that JESUS Himself picked out, started off as a bunch of, well, thugs. But He saw something more than just their outward appearance. Jesus looked at their heart.
Jesus was also about social needs. Christ's ministry was two fold; there was the spiritual side of His minsitry, and then there was the practical side. When Jesus fed the 5000 He didn't just give them the Word, He also fed them because it they were hungry. We need to make sure that our ministry is balanced. People need Jesus and His message of hope and salvation, but Jesus created opportunities to share that message with them by meeting their practical needs.
When it's all said and done with we should make sure that ALL that we do reflects Jesus and nothing else, not my opinions, or my personal views, but just what God's word has to say. And as long as I'm not disgracing God, blaspheming the Holy Spirit (SINNING) by "how" I worship and present the message of Christ, then, I feel the "method" to worship, preaching, evangelism, etc can change as long as the MESSAGE doesnt'.
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Rank: New Member
Joined: 2/20/2008
Posts: 2
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I just can't get over the tone of this letter. I sensed such an overwhelmingly critical spirit about everything from music to mission trips. I’m shocked that this letter came from a practicing Christian. Love, joy, peace, patience, etc….where are they? I think most of the comments about worship were this person's personal taste. Apparently if anyone finds value in "new" worship, we are wrong? Come on! If you are dissatisfied with your church, speak to your pastor or find one who meets your needs. I find that I have little tolerance for the "feel good" churches so I have chosen one where God's word is taught, along with the expectation of repentance and godly living. We meet weekly for prayer and are currently fasting and praying as a church body. However, I do see that some people are being reached by the "seeker friendly" churches. Atleast it gets people in the door where they can hear the word.
My other concern is the judgment of the “elder” based on the behavior of the children. God gave us all free will and our children may choose another path for a time. Are you sure there is no imperfection in your life that you are casting this stone?
I would love to have a discussion about how to make POSITIVE changes to the modern church, not a session of bashing it.
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Rank: New Member
Joined: 2/20/2008
Posts: 3
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I can relate to the originator of this discussion as well as those who have already commented on it. I would venture to say, that there aren't any perfect churches.. some might feel too old fashioned, some might seem too modern, etc... Some are too strict.... some are way too liberal. If you go about trying to find that 'perfect' church, you'll be hoping around from now till the end of time. Personally, I try to make the most out of where I am at. I have my issues, TRUST ME, but as long as the gospel is being preachecd and you are getting closer to the Lord because of a message that touched your heart, that's a good thing. Further, if you can worship from your heart with the music that is played, then that's a good thing too. If all of these elements are missing, then maybe it's time to either suggest improvements or move on. Sure, there are many things I might not agree with and more specifically like "Sunshine" wrote, many modern churches today are too wrapped up in numbers and growing / expanding as opposed to personally being there for their flock..... This might be opening 'another can of worms ' and getting many modern day pastors angry, but I mean, when was the last time you could actually talk to your pastor one on one when you were going through a crisis or needed prayer, guidance and/or advise? Some can say, that's never a problem and that their pastor could make the time for them regarding any personal or spiritual issue..... while others might say.. are you kidding?!?!? The pastor is just this guy who delivers a message on the weekend.... it starts there and ends there..... now that's pretty sad. It is what it is...... sadly sometimes.
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Rank: New Member
Joined: 2/20/2008
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have to agree with mindE. I was stunned at the critical tone of the letter. The church I attend does not sing hymns, but I still do. I prayed about choosing a church and God led to where I am. As Christians, we should be careful not to be legalistic. Just because some thing is not how we think it should be, does not necessarily mean that it is not Godly.
I am reminded of so many instances in the Bible where people had preconceive some something should be done and missed God as a result. The scribes and Pharisees could not accept Jesus because he did not come in the manner that they though he would. They were looking for someone to free them from the Romans. God wanted to free them from sin.
We can do the same thing today. We can miss God because we have preconceived that this is the way we want church to be and if the particular church deviates from our expectation we will walk away from the church experience unfulfilled. People sometimes say, “I did not get any thing out of that church experience. I often wonder if they are aware that most time you get what you put in. If you come in looking to see all the things that are wrong, you will see all the things that are wrong.
I closing I would like to say that Love is the greatest command of all so many time I have seen Christian observe all the rules and miss the opportunity to be Jesus to the world. LOVE IS PATIENT AND KIND,. IT IS ALWAYS HOPEFUL, ALWAYS ENDURES, LOVE DOES NOT DEMAND IT OWN WAY. There are lots I’s in this letter. I do not want this I do not want that. The Christian life is all about dying to self. I would encourage you to pray and ask God to guide you to a place of worship. Keep your heart open.. Jesus said he did not come for the righteous he came to call sinners to repentance. Expect to find sinners in church not perfect people. Intercede for those who are struggling and whose walk is not where it should be. Ask the Holy Spirit to use you as a vessel of encouragement to a younger person who may be hurting. I am of the younger generation. My mother owned a hymnbook she sang those hymns. We do not sing from the hymnal in our church, but I sing at home and teach my kids, because like you I believe in the rich heritage of the old hymns. May God bless you and keep you.
Beloved1
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Rank: New Member
Joined: 3/10/2008
Posts: 2
Location: Missouri
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Regarding "Wanted: An Old-fashioned Church" With some in agreement, the writer has also taken a lot of flack over his position. I would like to be counted as one who agrees and is on his side. I don't believe him to be overwhelmingly critical and I don't believe he was talking about ALL modern churches. If we can't express our personal tastes, then why spend time in this forum at all? Not all things can be expressed with love, joy and peace as two writers suggested. Regarding leader's children, yes, God gave us free will (even in our children's lives and how they choose to live) but if a man cannot rule his own house well, how will he rule the house of God? That is Scripture - are we to change and ignore that? As far as the argument that hymns were new in their own time you still have to look at what is replacing the hymns. As "Wanted: An Old-fashioned Church" stated - the same, repetitive notes with little meat in the text. Is that was we should replace time-honored, soul-saving hymns with? All of that to say, I agree and also long for an old-fashioned church that respects and reverences our Holy God.
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Rank: Regular Member
Joined: 2/18/2008
Posts: 14
Location: Winnipeg Canada
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Reading the original letter and than some of the posts, it becomes clear why some people long for the "old fashion" church. The worldly "christians" usualy speak about how much they love Jesus and how important it is to them to worship him to the tune of music of THEIR choice, (all in one sentence), as if it was impossible to pray and worship without it! Peace, love and patience they want, which is great, the only problem is, that those three words have a very different meaning to them, as opposed to the one found in scripture. The early christians sang hymns not to entertain themselves! or "help" them to "focus" or to make the "seeker" comfortable, or some other nonsense, but to glorify God, they sang meaningful words from their hart and soul, performance-wise it was probably nothing to brag about, but he Lord does not care about our musical performance level, in fact if you think about it, there's nobody nor ever was, that could impress The Lord with whatever he/she can do with the guitar, drums, bass, or their vocal cords, their best effords would still be a kakkophony!!!(spelling?) to the Lord' ear, so why bother?, why waste precious time and resources, and worst of all to strive about it....why not admit already, that we do that to entertein ourselves!? How can God be glorified with musical instruments when He demands to be worshiped in spirit? You see, you cannot admit that it is for your sinful flesh' sake, that's why all the guilt shifting, cryes for "love" "tolerance" Com-on that man wrote to Brent, and to all of us in effect, there's this real longing in it about how great it would be to just leave all the worldly trash, baggage, chains, and yoke and just be with The Lord and breathren, yet some people see it as a "critical spirit" and call for even more patience? don't worry guys we're not gonna change your churches, if you'd live in this world long enough you'd notice that "The old fashion" church becomes extinct with every passing day, and soon you'll have anything YOU "need" to worship in your local "church"...And oh...."matthewds" where did you get the idea that the twelwe disceples were thugs? if you insist that they were, than either you assume you are something better and consider yourself a "non thug", or you think of yourself as equal to them which would make you a thug also! which would be fair to say that just by being humans we are "thugs" in one way or another...but than why call them "thugs" instead of humans in the first place? why complicate and confuse the precious simplicity of The Gospel? I'm sure "the cool crowd" love's it!.....you're a preacher right?
-walter broda-
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Rank: Bronze Member
Joined: 2/18/2008
Posts: 28
Location: Michigan
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Reading the original post and then all the replies, this subject has taken off in many directions, as well it should. There are valid and no so valid ideas throughout the original letter as well as the replies. It is not "bad" to long for the "good ole Christian days" Remember the old song "Give me that old time Religion"?? If it was good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for me. And Yes, Christianity sure had to grow and each generation had influence in that process. Bottom line is if a person (no matter what era they live in) does not accept the free gift of Christ death and resserection and not be born again, They will be cast into the lake of fire. If they do accept and live for Christ and stay "IN CHRIST" they will live with Him forever. There are only two destinations for us. Heaven or Hell. The choice is ours. That, I believe is the old time Christianity,and should still be taught today. It should Never go out of "style". I cannot address all the points in this post. It would take up alot of space and I do not type very well. :-) I will however give my opinion the "thug theory" and the music . It does not matter really what the deciples were or weren't. Fact is Christ Himself chose them, no matter what their occupation or mindset were. I am thankful He did. Paul is the perfect example. He hunted down Christians and persecuted and killed them. Thug just might be a little kind in describing him. But, again Christ choose Him.!!! I for one again..., am sure glad that He did. Music is a passion of mine and part of my ministry. I love the old songs and hymns. I love some of the new soft contemparary music. When it gets to the point where "Christian" music tries to incorporate worldly rock and roll, rap and styles where you can't even understand the words. That is where I dissagree. Songs need to be about Christ and living for Christ, etc...... A lot of songs Christ is not even mentioned. I know I will get some criticizism for this, but that is ok. Let me ask one thing.......What is the first thing you think of when you hear a rap song??? Be honest. And what about rock and roll???? The truth is that these types of "music" are worldly and project many bad things. They are just the world trying to infiltrate the church. We have enough of that already. There is enterainment and then there is ministry and worship. God Bless you all !!
http://www.simpletruth-simplyput.com
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Rank: Regular Member
Joined: 2/18/2008
Posts: 14
Location: Winnipeg Canada
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Yes this subject did take off in different directions, yet i feel i should answer to what was said about the "thugs". I have to disagree with "Gary", whatever Paul did before Jesus spoke to him, was done with zealousy, and conviction that he was in fact serving God, he did all that, driven by love to the Lord and His Law, he was misguided, he was wrong, but it did not make him a "thug", Paul was not a criminal, he did not do it to satisfy some sadistic lusts, he was hired by the very leaders of his day, and was acting within the limits of the law which was in effect those days, trying to do it as best as he could, all The Lord had to do, was simply and gently get his attention to the fact that he... "works for the enemy!!!!" after that, all the "fire" and potential in him was used for good, making him the most fruitful of all disciples. The problem we have today, is that more and more people start to look at bible, and especialy the more extreme situations of biblical accounts, through the "politicly correct" lenses, which make us very shortsighted. But my point in my previous post was, that someone chooses to call the disciples "thugs", i mean is that the first thing that comes to your mind when speaking of the apostles? weather they were thugs or not is not even relevant, we know that there was one real thug among them, Judas, we know they were all sinners, and saying anything above that, and calling them names is counterproductive at the list, because after saying that, you better make sure that you fully explain exactly what you mean! Except for Judas they were all converted, after which their real work began, the gospel account tells us briefly for the record, what manner of a men they were before The Lord chose them, and than it moves on to what really is important, why such "colourful" description, not to mention exaturation of something that was matter-of-factly stated for the record? It is counterproductive, it confuses the young and unsaved, to them it looks like it's OK, and maybe even cool to be a thug because if those bad apostles were saved, than really, Jesus has no choice but to save them too...
-walter broda-
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Rank: Bronze Member
Joined: 2/18/2008
Posts: 28
Location: Michigan
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Walter.....I think maybe the name calling has been blown out of proportion. If you will notice in my last post I said "it does not matter what the deciples were or weren't. Fact is Christ chose them no matter what they were" And I am glad he did. In no way was I calling names. I referenced to Paul because no matter who, what or why, he was killing Christians, it was wrong. Just as wrong as sinners of today. Are you saying the cults and persecuters of Christians today all over the world,where they are killing Christians is ok because they are doing in with zeal and belief in their cause or "religioin"? Again I think the namee calling was mispercived in the post (I may be wrong). Are not we all murderers, thugs and thieves,. etc.... (SINNERS) before we accepted Christ? That was the point I was trying to make. Sometimes molehills become mountains simply because we misunderstand what someone writes. It is very easy to take someone's writing the wrong way for the simple reason we cannot hear the tone in which it is written. Just so you know, this was written with nothing against you and only in the spirit of love. God Bless you all.
http://www.simpletruth-simplyput.com
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Rank: Regular Member
Joined: 2/18/2008
Posts: 14
Location: Winnipeg Canada
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Gary, you're right, it is easy to misunderstand someone's writng at times... and just like you, i did not mean anything against you, I don't know... but I just can't stand that kind of unnessesery, flippant language when referring to the scripture and biblical characters, especially with the world already pushing the envelope of what the church should be like. We can't change the fact that the world is twisting the church into "church" , but we can and should speak against it, and.....separate ourselves while we're still able to recognise what is what.
-walter broda-
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Rank: Bronze Member
Joined: 2/18/2008
Posts: 28
Location: Michigan
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Amen, Walter... I agree that todays church is not what it needs to be. If we do find one that reverances God and tries it's best to adhear to the plain gospel truths, I find it is a very small church and most people don't want to go there because it has "nothing" to them. The fact is that it has everything to offer them, and that is The only way to the kingdom of God. " seek ye first the kingdom of God. Jesus Himself told us that. Sign of the times.
http://www.simpletruth-simplyput.com
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Rank: Regular Member
Joined: 2/21/2008
Posts: 14
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In reply to the original post, I will offer a few general responses (cannot possibly respond to all - I have a life outside of this forum)
1. It sounds like you are looking for the perfect church. Let me make this quick and easy - there is not one anywhere. While we live here on earth, the bride is disgustingly dirty. But you already know what you have to do - seek God's guidance on where He wants you (NOT NECESSARILY WHERE YOU THINK YOUR NEEDS WILL BE MET), and then serve God to the best of your ability where he puts you. I can tell you that you WILL NOT agree with everything. But maybe you can be part of the change -- which all of us are undergoing while we are waiting for our "Husband". (In fact, you SHOULD be part of the change.)
2. What makes you think that everyone who "attends" a worship service is a worshipper of the One true God? In fact, what makes you think they are in the kingdom at all? The person that distracts you by rubbing someone else's shoulders is obviously not worshipping, so you should be praying that they will find Christ - instead of griping about what they are doing in public. Lost people cannot possibly behave like people of the kingdom - they do not have the Spirit. (Narrow is the gate that leads to life, and FEW there be who find it.)
3. Taking my last point a step further, not everyone who LEADS a worship service is in the kingdom. The Bible warns in many places of "wolves in sheep's clothing" and "false prophets". Satan is a master-deceiver. Outright evil is usually of man's doing; but when something or someone looks almost like the real thing, you can bet Satan is behind it. (Didn't we prophesy and do marvelous works in Your name? And He will say 'depart from me, I never knew you.')
4. If you can speak with the tongues of men and angels, if you have the gift of prophecy, if you have the faith to move mountains, and give everything you have to the poor - (sound like a "perfect" Christian?) - BUT HAVE NOT LOVE, YOU ARE NOTHING. Give grace to others, as it has been given to you.
5. Pray for your elders, pray for your local church, pray for the change in yourself and in all of us. COME QUICKLY, LORD JESUS!
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Rank: Administration
Joined: 2/17/2008
Posts: 97
Location: Washington, OK
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After reading through the posts I think it's clear that there is a lot wrong with our modern tradition of church but the other thing that is clear, is that it started going wrong right from the beginning. Even the letters from the apostles themselves that became our New Testament address many problems that had already crept into the church in the early years. So I think the lesson is is that there will always be problems as long as there are sinful humans involved. There will be times for sweeping reform, there will be times for minor adjustment. It will always be time for us to follow our conscience and for some it means staying within a more traditional church setting and for others it might mean being part of a house church or home meeting. All in all, it is a delicate balance between being discerning and stepping over into having a critical spirit. There is much to be concerned about in today's seeker friendly, entertainment oriented, people pleasing and feel good church movement. Does that mean it's all wrong? Or only the old traditional ways considered godly? Why? To the contrary, are all the old traditional ways outdated and irrelevant? The truth is God is not confined to our traditions at all. I think those of us who have time to even consider questions like this would probably be embarrassed to find how silly these conversations are to those on the leading edge of missions, who live in countries where Christianity is persecuted or come from environments like Muslim countries where you will simply die for professing Christ in any way. I agree: Lord come quickly!
Brent Riggs - Author, teacher, mentor, online business expert riggsreport.com | brentriggsBLOG.com | brentriggs.com | seriousfaith.com | brentriggsPHOTO.com | brentriggsSTUFF.com
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Rank: Regular Member
Joined: 2/21/2008
Posts: 14
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THERE IS a lot to be concerned about in what is being called the "emerging" church movement. But don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Every generation has condemned the younger generation for not doing things the way they did them "back then". I dare say that church members in 1950 were upset with the way people were worshipping in 1950 - instead of like they worshipped back in 1900, when they were kids.
You may or may not know this - but Handel was dunned by the people of his time for the "Hallelujah Chorus" section of his "Messiah". People thought there was an over-repetition of the word "hallelujah" in the song. (Sound like a familiar argument about some of today's church praise music?) But to me, music in church is a non-issue. If the only time you can worship is to a certain kind of music - then you are not worshipping "....in spirit and in truth" anyway. Worshipping God has more to do with an obedient lifestyle and a rightly-related heart and attitude than it does music.
You are right Brent - the church is made up of humans - so it will be imperfect. But on that day when the Bride of Christ is presented spotless, and every knee will bow and every tongue confess - then and only then will worship be perfect. And we will sing "Holy, holy, holy" for eternity! Can't wait! (....I wonder if anyone will complain about the repetition in that song?....)
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