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Spanking and other disciplinary techniques.... Options
brentriggs
Posted: Friday, March 07, 2008 9:37:39 AM
Rank: Administration

Joined: 2/17/2008
Posts: 97
Location: Washington, OK
Readers, I had the follow question sent in. I would love to hear from parents and grandparents on this, rather than just me giving an opinion. Parents have become nervous and hamstrung about discipline. We live in fear of being accused by others, and our own kids, of "abuse".

Here's the question, but I want this to be a general discussion about how children should be disciplined effectively and properly.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Dear Mr. Riggs, My wife and I had heard people comment against spanking since we got married and decided not to do it. But when my daughter turned 3 her behavior needed a correction she could understand so I would give her a few swats on the behind. My wife is opposed to this. However, we began to notice her behavior is fine when I am around, but not good when just "mommy" is home. My brother and his wife believe spanking is God's will and gave us a book by Lisa Welchel called "Creative Correction which advocates spanking, and other punishments (hot sauce on tongue, public embarrassment)my wife feels are abusive. Do you have an opinion on this book? I feel like if I don't discipline my daughter I am harming her, but if I spank her I am harming my marriage. Please help!

Brent Riggs - Author, teacher, mentor, online business expert
riggsreport.com | brentriggsBLOG.com | brentriggs.com | seriousfaith.com | brentriggsPHOTO.com | brentriggsSTUFF.com
Michael Böser
Posted: Friday, March 07, 2008 10:41:45 AM
Rank: New Member

Joined: 2/26/2008
Posts: 1
Location: Denmark
I, myself am a father of three kids and I do correct my children with a spank or being stern. But I just am just going to give a brief comment based on my own experience from my parents.

You state how to use other punishments i.e. hot sauce and public embarrassment. When I was a child, my parents used to put mustard (not the sweet kind) on my tongue to punish me when I spoke "foul" language, i.e. swearing etc. The result of this today is that I absolutely detest the taste of strong mustard.

On the note of publicly embarrassing the child I will only give an personal opinion and not based on neither bible nor other references. If a child is deliberately publicly embarrassed by the anchors in the child's life, namely the parents, then I think it can only leave mental and emotional scars behind. The scars that a parent can leave behind in a child can go so deep that it will be many years into their adult life to repair (this I base on what I have observed with others).

I believe that spanking if in place is okay for correctional purposes, which again is just my own opinion, but I also see that there is a hair fine line in correctional spanking and abuse.

One needs to ask one self how to do the correct thing. My wife and I don't believe in abuse of children and we are very much against it, but we do use a slap on times. We use in majority the verbal correction on our children, and they "fall in line". But I would recommend the use of whatever tool works for oneself. In the range of my own family I have seen how a now teenage child turned into absolutely uncontrollable, where the parents never believed in spanking or harsh words. Here the tool used was basically a negotiating attitude with the child throughout the years. And I know others who are fine from having been raised by the same method.

Mainly it's what your christian conscience tells you. In my country it is actually forbidding by law to hit ones child, but I believe there is differences to the degree of hitting / slapping etc.

So yes, I do give my children a slap on the bottom when it is REALLY needed, but I don't believe in abuse of a child, which I don't think this is.

Michael
caseyslady
Posted: Friday, March 07, 2008 10:45:13 AM
Rank: New Member

Joined: 3/7/2008
Posts: 1
Location: Victoria Texas
I am a mother of 4 daughters, who are now 29, 27, 24 and 21, all them have married and have a child. I remarried in 2004 after being widowed in 1996. My husband and I are raising my 5 year old granddaughter and have had her since she was 12 months old, as well as his 8 year old daughter from his previous marriage.

I have spanked all of my children and now use this form of punishment with my granddaughter and stepdaughter. I believe the Bible states Spare the rod, spoil the child. My husband and I do not use spanking as a form of punishment for everything but we do spank for sever offenses. Such as lieing, stealing, disobedience if sever enough, etc.... we also use other forms of punishment for less severe offenses. I don't believe in using the hot sauce or publicy embarrassing my children but.... if they are behaving badly in public then I believe correcting them or even spanking them in public is not an embarrassment. A parent can spank a child without it being considered abuse. That is entirely in the parents hands. A few good hard swats with a hand or even a shoe (such as a flip flop or, slipper) had never damaged a child. It smarts enough to let them know they are not behaving appropriately.

My parents did NOT spare the rod with me and I did not turn out to be an abusive person or parent. In fact as head strong and stubborn a child and pre teen as I was, that punishment was probably the best thing because I definitely had a healthy fear and respect for my Daddy and I respected my Mother because I knew if I disrespected her I would be standing for a while because my Daddy would make sure my backside was sore. I am 49 years old and to this day I would NEVER disrespect my Daddy or my Mother and that is how I raised my girls and am raising my granddaughter and stepdaughter. They both know how much we love them but they also both know that corporal punishment will be inacted if they misbehave in school or Church or in public. If you wife has a problem with corporal punishment then maybe you should suggest she read the part in the Bible about sparing the rod and also the commandment for a child to honor his mother and father. I have not seen one child that was simply talked to or given time out for something that was respectful to their parent or to the teachers etc.... God Bless and I hope you can find a solution to you problem.
Gary
Posted: Friday, March 07, 2008 11:15:15 AM
Rank: Bronze Member

Joined: 2/18/2008
Posts: 28
Location: Michigan
I don't have alot of time here, I am on my way out to do some errands. One thought I just had to put in is Accountability !!!
Why is there not any accountability with our youth, who will soon be the "adults"of our society.
This is a pet peeve of mine and I could go on for a while :-). but I Gotta go. (FOR NOW)

http://www.simpletruth-simplyput.com
victoriousone
Posted: Friday, March 07, 2008 11:40:16 AM
Rank: New Member

Joined: 3/4/2008
Posts: 1
Location: Atlanta
I am a parent of a now 20 year-old son who was a rough customer as a child. As a Christian and a single parent, I believe that the Bible is clear as to how to discipline our children. "Rebellion is bound up in the heart of a child and the rod of correction will drive it far from him!" I do not have my Bible in front of me but this is the gist of this scripture. As Christian parents, we are mandated by G-D to discipline our children. If we are Spirit-led, we know how far to go so that we do not abuse them.

In essence, I am all for disciplining children. G-D disciplines us (He chastens those whom He loves)! Consequently, if we love our children we will do likewise.
t-bob
Posted: Friday, March 07, 2008 12:01:48 PM
Rank: Regular Member

Joined: 2/18/2008
Posts: 5

I have read Creative Correction and completed Lisa Welchel's Bible study. Just like any other book written by a human being, it is flawed and it is NOT for everyone. One thing I can say for sure, Lisa loves the LORD and she wrote this with the intent of parents realizing that whatever they do, scripture should be the basis for their disciplinary actions. There are several techniques she suggested for various "offenses". I do not think that Lisa advocates using each of these suggestions for every child, but she offers suggestions for different personality types. What works for one child's personality when being corrected will not work for another. However, Lisa suggests that using the Bible and teaching your children scripture when you correct them is of utmost importance, and I agree. Now, my son knows that we are going to talk about God's Word when he is being corrected, and sometimes that correction involves a spanking (rarely). The basic premise of the book is not the "punishments" but the teaching that is required of parents who are born again. It is our responsibility to instill God's truths in our children's hearts early on. It is important for them to know WHY they are being corrected and that "because I said so" isn't enough. Rather, we are to teach our children, from toddlers to teens, that we correct them for certain behaviors because GOD said so. That takes the child straight to the root of the problem - SIN. We are to explain that their behaviors are sinful and that God's Word speaks against the actions our children do that warrant consequences. Lisa also has a very important section of the book on grace and mercy. She is careful to explain that our Savior showed our sin the ultimate grace and mercy, and there are times when parents should follow the example of the Savior. That is very effective with my son. When I believe that our discussion of the behavior has been enough, we will discuss what Jesus did for me (mother) on Calvary. We will discuss that Mom was a filthy sinner who did some terrible things, but Christ knew that I was sorry and accepted my apology and forgave that sin. Then, my son and I will pray and he will ask Jesus to forgive his sin for whatever behavior he had displayed that was sinful. Spanking isn't the only option, and it should be used sparingly under Holy Spirit led conditions.
brentriggs
Posted: Friday, March 07, 2008 12:13:53 PM
Rank: Administration

Joined: 2/17/2008
Posts: 97
Location: Washington, OK
We have seven children. We are firm believers in appropriate, loving discipline. Personally I get tired of everyone apologizing and being sure to mention "it's not abuse". 99.9% of parents who discipline, spanking or otherwise, have never abused a kid, nor would they. But the politically-correct pressure of today's world make us all preface our comments on spanking or punishment as if we have something hide, or need to apologize.

Our youngest are toddlers. They are well behaved and obedient. All our children are respectful and good kids. Oh yes, they have their moments and some our more difficult than others, but overall, they are disciplined and obedient, appropriate for their age (oldest is 20; youngest 2).

We use several forms of discipline. Here's a summary: direct disobedience, defiance or temper fits results in a spanking. Every time, no exceptions. As a result of “no tolerance”, guess what? My kids RARELY disobey, rebel or throw fits. Consequently, they are happy, play well together... and ironically, get spankings with less and less frequency. Why? Because they know the standards, and they know the consequences. Simple.

When is a child old enough to get a swat? When they are old enough to deliberately, and knowingly disobey, throw genuine temper fit, or willfully defy you. Once they have reached the age where they can do that, it’s time to start teaching them the consequences of it.

Our spankings consist of swats on the behind only, with light rubber spatula. This causes the swat to "sting", but the spatula too light to bruise or injure. But make no mistake, IT STINGS. A mistake that is often made is a spanking “without effect”. It is a waste of time to spank if the spanking is not painful enough to deter the behavior. A child must literally think in his mind “if I do this, I’ll get a spanking that hurts… so I’m not going to do this”. That is the entire purpose of spanking along with teaching them that bad choices results in painful consequences (a lesson most people today are never taught).

We never spank with our hands, because the kids need "love" or "help" from your hands. They aren't "gunshy" of us because they know they only get a spanking if mom or dad has gotten the "paddle spoon" (spatula). They are told WHY they are getting a spanking and made to repeat it back to reinforce that it is THEIR behavior and choices that result in discipline. The kids are made to lay down on the bed. They get their swats, then they sit up and cry. No fits, no screaming, no kicking, no disrespect allowed (many parents let the kids "punish the parents" after a spanking which just defeats the purpose).

After they are done crying (usually less than one minute) it is quickly explained again why they were disciplined and what the expected behavior is. Then it's a big hug and kiss, which immediately transforms them back into "ready to play and have fun"... and then it's over. No sulking, pouting or bad attitudes just because they got in trouble.

We never slap nor spank anywhere but on the behind; that is humiliating and serves no purpose. I’m not really sure about the “hot sauce” thing but we’ve done “wash your mouth out with soap” (a couple of rubs from a bar of soap on the tongue) for profanity or verbal ugliness.

In public, we don't spank simply because of all the people out there waiting to report you for “abuse”... ironically, their own misbehaving kids are often present. It's revealing that it is almost always YOUNGER parents, who are ready to accuse you of abuse for spanking... not Grandma's and Grandpa's (most of whom grew up getting their behinds warmed up much more often than anyone does today).

Frankly, because we discipline correctly at home, we don’t have trouble in public. We take our kids to restaurants, weddings, church, any event at all and never worry about how they will act. I can’t count the number of times people have paused to tell us how wonderfully behaved our kids are in public. Down to our two year old, they eat with the mouths closed, they say “please and thank you”, they are polite, and they rarely “act up” in public. On the rare occasion they do, they we take them outside or the bathroom and warn them of the consequences when we get home, and they straighten up.

I also get sick of the media who never miss a change to parade out the WORSE parents in world "who spank" to show how chaotic, abusive and ineffective it is. These "examples" NEVER have a grasp on how to spank properly, when to spank or even have any sense of discipline or parenting at all. They are almost always exclusively shown to be parents who only spank as a last measure, when they are frazzled and angry, and the kids make a mockery of the spanking but running away, screaming, flailing and shouting out how much they hate everyone. The parents are often laughable immature themselves, or just nutcases…. Doesn’t matter. The media parades them out as PROOF that spanking doesn’t work.

We give "time outs" for childishness that has been warned and corrected previously, for bickering or unkindness, and for poor attitudes.

As they grow up, you transition from physical punishment to grounding, privileges and appeals to their maturity.

Parents should not have to be afraid to discipline their kids. YES, there is real abuse out there, and it is TRAGIC. But that is no excuse to throw out loving, compassionate, routine, purposeful, loving discipline which absolutely includes spanking. Much like many issues in America, the godless sector pulls out the extreme cases that represent a miniscule fraction of the population, and base their proclamations on that. If one set of parents abused their kids with spanking, then ALL spanking is abusive. We can’t RISK even ONE child. (though we can then risk 99% of all children not growing up understanding consequences, respect, authority or responsibility)

Kids who are disciplined are more secure. Kids who are disciplined are more happy. Homes that have discipline are more peaceful and loving. This assumes of course an abundant balance of love, affection and compassion as well.

As a result of CONSISTENT, structured, and predictable discipline - that includes spanking for disobedience, disrespect or defiance - kids feel more loved by their parents. Thirty seconds after my kids get a spanking, we are hugging, kissing, laughing and playing again.

The opposite of this approach can be readily seen out in public: rude, screaming, bratty, unruly and ugly kids next to parents who either ignore them, or sheepishly look around in complete embarrassing helplessness.

One last thing… many people who hear this will leave thinking that we have some “Hitler-like” prison camp in our home, where it’s all discipline and harshness and stifled creativity. HOGWASH! Our home is loving, affectionate, rowdy, fun, playful with never ending activity and “playing with Mom and Dad”. As I said, because our kids know the rules, know the expectation, and KNOW they will be enforced, the need for getting disciplined decreases dramatically.

There is none of this being good when DAD is around. My wife has it much easier at home during the day because she is an equal partner in discipline. Oh sure, Mom’s little more of a pushover than Dad… that’s just how God made us. But overall, my wife enjoys the same good behavior from our kids whether I’m home or not. Discipline makes raising kids more joyful, more peaceful and more productive.

In the end, ironically, the KIDS are the ones who benefit. A far cry from being “abused”, kids feel safe, secure and loved. IF I HAD TO APPLY THE LABEL OF “ABUSE” TO ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER, IT IS CLEARLY MORE “ABUSIVE” TO NOT DISCIPLINE KIDS.

You don’t have to be a harsh, uncompassionate dictator to “rule your house well”. You just have to be consistent, and discipline with purpose. On the contrary, it is the well disciplined home that has a “lighter spirit” because the kids are happy, secure, well adjusted, well behaved and know the boundaries. We are exceedingly affectionate and compassionate with our children. Part of that love and compassion is knowing the benefit of loving, Godly and proper discipline.


Brent Riggs - Author, teacher, mentor, online business expert
riggsreport.com | brentriggsBLOG.com | brentriggs.com | seriousfaith.com | brentriggsPHOTO.com | brentriggsSTUFF.com
momof2
Posted: Friday, March 07, 2008 1:30:58 PM
Rank: New Member

Joined: 3/7/2008
Posts: 1
Your home sounds like our home, Brent. But I do want to add from a different perspective. My husband has been a cop for 20 years. I used to work at the District Attorney's Office and that is how we met. After we had children and began to have to discipline, it really opened our eyes. Even though we spank we do not use our hands. We use a wooden spoon and have NEVER left a mark. I know personally having an "object" in my hand to spank with makes me more aware of how hard I use it. If I just swatted with my hand it would be much harder and more out of anger. The time it takes me to send them to their room and get the "paddle" I am more calm and ready to discipline.

One day my husband commented that parenting has helped him as a cop. He now understands truly how hard you have to hit a child to leave a mark, helping it become more clear between discipline and child abuse when he is working a child abuse case. There are a lot of people scared to discipline their child in public but the authorities can see a difference between abuse and discipline.
brentriggs
Posted: Friday, March 07, 2008 1:49:27 PM
Rank: Administration

Joined: 2/17/2008
Posts: 97
Location: Washington, OK
That's encouraging. I hate it that parents have to be so afraid of being accused of spanking. The horror stories of "authorities" jerking kids out of Christian homes for spanking smack of both religious persecution and abuse of power.

It's really something that a $25k/yr social worker, with no kids, or not a clue on how to be a good parent, with a chip on their shoulder about "religious nuts" and trained by humanist liberals can decide to rip a home apart by taking kids from a loving home and entering them into an often times abusive "state care" system. (calm down everyone; that's not broad sweep of every social worker; but neither is it an uncommon reality).

Brent Riggs - Author, teacher, mentor, online business expert
riggsreport.com | brentriggsBLOG.com | brentriggs.com | seriousfaith.com | brentriggsPHOTO.com | brentriggsSTUFF.com
Stanley Lamb
Posted: Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:28:18 AM
Rank: New Member

Joined: 2/27/2008
Posts: 4
Location: Sayre, OK
My wife and I have been married 56 years. We raised five boys. They all turned out to be productive members of society. Did we use spanking? Yes. I was saved at the age of 24 years. The first two boys were still very young. I read the Bible, believed what it said and trained them according to Scripture. I don't believe that we can read God's Word and tear out the pages with which we disagree. All of the Bible is true. The God who created us, wrote the Bible through inspired individuals and it tells us how to raise our children.

Furthermore, I spent most of my employed life as a public school principal. I used the Biblical principles to administer my schools. I was never sued and my schools had discipline. There was respect and obedience for the teachers and employees of these schools.

The greatest responsibility that any parent has is to raise and train their children. I think that it is evident from todays society that many of our children have not been properly trained and do not respect authority. American is paying the consequences for that lack.

Stanley Lamb
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